Edward Norton
Edward Norton is well connected. One time, Dustin Hoffman asked him if he'd come and read an Edward Albee play - Zoo Story - at his daughter's high school. So off he went, to find that the school had rallied all the 16- to 18-year olds, plus the parents, plus the teachers. Norton and Hoffman did the read-through, then sat onstage to take questions. But fot the next two hours, the only thing these kids wanted to know about was Norton's film Fight Club. Her interest pricked, a teacher asked: "How many of you have seen this film?" Every kid in the room raised their hand. Says Norton, proudly, "You could feel the parents thinking: 'What is this?'" Then the teacher said: "How many of you have seen it three or four times?" "Every kid," says Norton, "raised their hand."
At the age of 31 (just), Edward Norton is a pretty cool guy. With just seven films under his belt, he has two Oscar nominations to his credit, plus the cult kudos of one of the most astonishing films of the late 20th century. Because despite its poor performance at the box office, David Fincher's tour de force Fight Club has already lodged itself in the youth subconscious - and Norton knows it. "Y'know," he says, calling from the set of his new film, The Score, "I even said it to Fincher, I said: 'The films that made us want to make films - the Strangeloves, the Clockwork Oranges, the Taxi Drivers - none of those films were box-office triumphs when the came out and all of them aroused a very polarizing reaction. But these films became the defining hallmarks of a zeitgeist, when you look back at them, and I have total confidence that Fight Club falls into that category.
"To give you an example, my old film professor has sent me stacks of
these papers that she's been getting from her graduate students, and
they're writing about Fight Club. Nobody's gonna be writing any
thesis papers about The Cider House Rules. It's not that it isn't
a terrific film, I just think people tend to celebrate things that are
easy to swallow at the moment they're delievered. Those films are great,
too - I've made them before and I'm making one right now - but Fight
Club was exactly the kind of film that made me wanna get into making
movies," And with his directorial debut, Keeping the Faith - the
amusing story of a rabbi and a priest falling out over their childhood
sweetheart - he's just gone one step further.
Why did you make Keeping the Faith? It's very much at odds with the "hip" crime thrillers most first-time directors want to make?
It did give me pause. I brought it up with Fincher, 'cos I was working on Fight Club at the time. I said, "I have a chance to do this film. It's a very old-school romantic comedy, and I'm not really sure if it's what I'd have said I would direct." And he said: "Well, do you think Alien3 was my heart's desire? If there's any part of this thing you can bring something to, do it." And I thought, just as an actor, there were a lot of things in Keeping the Faith that would be a change in gears for me. But perhaps more than anything, it was just the fact of making a New York movie. I've lived there 10 years now. It's my home.
It's a very straight story.
On some level, I feel that our generation's comedies have been very irony inflected. If we have a signature form, it's that kind of angst-ridden, almost existential comedy. I thought it would be interesting to do something where the characters were totally without irony.
What kind of movies had you gone up for before your debut, Primal Fear?
God, I can't remember... Up Close and Personal... With Honors... Hackers... Sabrina... There were a lot of 'em. Although there's no way I could have seen a role as good as Primal Fear coming.
Did Primal Fear get you the part in Woody Allen's Everyone Says I Love You?
Well, it was around the same time, but it wasn't really through that. We had just started filming Primal Fear when I went in and met Woody. It was around that time that I also met Milos [Forman, director of The People Vs. Larry Flynt].
What attracted you to The People Vs. Larry Flynt - the script or the story?
I had read the script earlier and sorta passed on it. I didn't really like it all that much. The script, orginally, was very satirical. I didn't really get it. But when they said Milos was gonna do it. I gave it a second look. He's a film-maker I think very highly of, and it was apparent to me that he was interested in a slightly more serious take. I remember him saying that the real hero of the story was the American Constitution, and what he wanted to celebrate was the irony of the idea that noble principles often only get tested by the radical extreme. So for the next couple of months, we all worked pretty hard to rewrite the script and sorta change it.
Then you made Rounders, which is sort of an ananomaly in your filmography.
How so? Yes, it's a genre film but, y'know. Primal Fear was just a thriller. I don't think it's an anomaly, it's just another kind of film that I like. I thought it would be fun to do. The people were all really excellent and the character was fun. Sometimes it's just the character, y'know?
You really pumped up between Rounders and American History X?
Actually, I did American History X before Rounders, even though it came out after. But I spent about two and a half months getting into shape for that. I think he's a character who's armoured himself against the pain he's experienced in his life with his rage. I wanted him to have physically manifested that sort of armouring as well. When you talk to those kids, that's what those tattoos and muscles are all about. In a lot of ways, it's about creating a shield or a psychic empowerment device to deal with the feeling of being marginal and insecure.
Are you still in contact with American History X director Tony Kaye?
I haven't talked to Tony in a while, not since the film came out. But, I mean, I haven't really spoken to Woody Allen since that movie either.
After all the recriminations and Kaye's "war" with the studio over the final edit, how would you characterise your relationship with Kaye?
I don't have a relationship with Tony. And that's neither a negative nor a positive thing. I was disappointed in him and also for him, because when we all sat down to work on American History X, one of the things he expressed more than anything was that he hoped to achieve the kind of response the movie ultimately got. But he cut himself out of that process over, essentially, an immature reaction to the collaborative process and the practical realities of making a film financed by a studio.
Were you there the day Kaye turned up at a meeting with a monk, a rabbi and a priest?
No, but Mike De Luca, the head of New Line, handled that so well. A lot of people would have just thrown him out on his ass. But Mike said, "The camera crew's gotta leave but the rabbi, the monk and the priest can come in." The point being that even after 13 months of post-production, Mike still gave Tony another ten weeks. And Tony showed up at that meeting with nothing to show for these ten weeks. And that, I think, is when Mike made the decision to just move forward with what he had.
Primal Fear brought you your first Oscar nomination and American History X your second. How do you feel about the awards system in general?
You have to always take it with a pinch of salt. But at the end of the day, I think the Academy is the most flattering, in that it's the acknowledgement of your peers. But I also believe, with all due affection, that it's not a very substantive thing. If you ask most people the next day who won the supporting actor award ... [laughs] ... they can't even remember? Try it.
During this period you turned down a lot of projects like Saving Private Ryan..
I've turned down lots of things. After American History X, I had been planning to do The Thin Red Line with Terry Malick, playing one of the main parts. Ultimately Jim Caviezel played it. I had been looking forward to that, then... [sighs] I had some deaths in the family. Sometimes things like that happen. I'd have loved to have been in that film, and I thought it was beautiful the way it turned out. But, you know, sometimes life comes around and... So much for your plans! I think Saving Private Ryan was around that same time, that same summer.
Which brings us to Fight Club and the furore at the Venice Film Festival.
It was the first time we'd seen it together with an audience, and Brad turned to me and said, "That's the best movie I will ever be in." I said, "Me too." It's without any question my favourite film that I've been in. It's the only film where the end result has met or exceeded my fantasy of what it was going to be. The producer, Art Linson, once said to me something that I totally agree with. He said, "This film's terrific because it's helped define certain things for me." I said, "What do you mean?" He said, "It's made me realise that people who don't get this film are not people I care to know anyway." And I completely agree.
How has it affected you?
No more or less than anything else I've done, on a recognition level.
People don't try to start fights with you?
No. If anything, I would say the nature of the material I've done tends to make people a little bit intimidated. People leave me a healthier amount of spece than they leave other people. Which is silly, too!
After Fight Club, you were rumoured to be doing Man on the Moon. What happened there?
I talked to Milos about that for a while, and we made a little film of me doing the Andy Kaufman stuff. He was gonna do that in the summer of '98, but I wasn't available until, like, January '99. There was a feeling from Milos that he had the enthusiasm, the studio and the money. Jim Carrey really wanted to do it too, so I said, "Look, if you gotta make it, go make it." I think it meant more to Jim. It was right in a way, that he did it.
What can you reveal about The Score?
I play a guy who's partnered with Robert De Niro to steal this French antiquity from the Montreal customs house where it's been impounded. Marlon Brando is the art dealer/fence who's orchestrating the whole thing. It's a heist picture. The appeal for me was the people involved.
Is it daunting to work with those two?
No, it's exciting. I've known Marlon for a little while before doing this - we have mutual friends - so I already knew that I liked him.
Is it true he has an alarming habit of not dressing below the waist?
No. [Laughs] That go kind of overcooked. It was just that we were working on soundstages that were very hot, so sometimes when they were moving in for the higher shots he was taking his trousers off and shooting in his underwear. It was more to keep cool than anything.
How long have you know De Niro?
I had met him in passing, but never gotten to know him. Obviously, I admired him my whole life. He's just a total professional. A minimalist. He's one of those people you rarely run into, who - when he says something - he's actually got something to say! Which is rare.
Do you have anything lined up after this?
Greg Hoblit, who directed Primal Fear, is doing a World War Two POW drama that I've been talking about doing, but that would be after New Year's. I came to The Score a little faster after directing my movie than I wanted to, but the opportunity of working with De Niro and Brando was pretty rare, so I jumped at it. But I think I might try to take a break from acting for most of the year. Maybe do some travelling.
Are you thinking of directing another movie?
I don't have any immediate plans. I have a great day job, I enjoy it a lot and I don't want to direct something just for the hell of it. It's a long process, directing a movie...
Keeping the Faith is released on 15 September (UK release date)
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